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October 09, 2007

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Eric Norman

One of the claims above is that nobody will go into the identity business (e.g. Identity Oracles and the like) unless they can make money at it.

Well, higher education seems to be fairly successful at being in the identity business by deploying Shibboleth and identity providers, which are almost the same as identity oracles.

Furthermore, higher education does not make money by providing testimony about identity information.

I'm not saying Bob is wrong; I'm just making an observation for folks to ponder and comment on.

I'll comment. I think it has a lot to do with liability. Higher education treats liability differently then the corporate sector.

Bob Blakley

Higher education isn't in the identity business. It's in the education business, and it needs to understand identity in order to be in that business. It offers identity to its students, and via Shibboleth to other educational institutions via federation.

It charges its students tuition; one of the services students get for their tuition is an identity provided by their institution, which can be used at the institution and its federation partners, but not outside that ecosystem.

My bank is happy to provide me an identity I can use with bank systems. It's also happy to provide me with a credit card I can use at merchants - provided that I pay a cut of each dollar spent to the bank in the form of interest fees.

A stated goal of the identity metasystem is to free me from the bondage to my bank (or my college) and give me an identity I can use anywhere. This will only happen if the provider of that identity can make enough money to do the management required to maintain it.

Another stated goal of the identity metasystem is to protect my identity - no matter who the provider is - against misconduct and negligence of relying parties who receive my information. Shibboleth accomplishes this by creating a trust relationship between my college and the other colleges I visit. This is a great model - one which I helped design. But it's not a model which consumers will get for free, without paying the equivalent of tuition to an Identity Oracle.

Trey Tomeny

This is my first notice of this Identity Oracle concept. It shares some characteristics with my idea for "Private Identity Providers" that are part of the "Private Identity Network".

My idea does have a way for identity providers to make lots of money- so I believe it may be a substantial step in the right direction.

Doc Searls visited my site the other day and left a comment, "...a great idea..." and featured it in a post on his personal blog and ProjectVRM blog yesterday.

Please check it out at replacegoogle.com if you are interested.

Nishant Kaushik

I agree that the business model for commercial Identity Oracles needs to be worked out. But I wouldn't underplay the need to develop the underlying technology component that makes this possible either. It wouldn't do to build the business case and find out that there are no tools to deliver the vision.

It is possible to stitch together a bunch of diverse technologies, and develop a management application on top of it to create such an online service. But that isn't repeatable. And there are a lot of parallels between the concept of an Identity Oracle business service and the Identity Services component that is needed for identity-enabled SOA applications (think 'Identity Oracles for the Enterprise' that are needed until we reach the truly internet-wide meta-system).

I fell into the trap of calling that technology component an Identity Oracle (hey, I work for Oracle, you can understand the attraction). After reading your post, I agree that for useful dialogue, it is necessary to avoid the terminology issues so common in the IAM space. Johannes Ernst even took a humorous shot at the name when I presented this concept at DIDW. So I am now in need of a name for this component that I have been working to define. Check out this blog post (http://blogs.oracle.com/talkingidentity/2007/10/10#a191) in which I talk about the technology component, and let me know your thoughts.

Curious reader

How does the "Identity Oracle" model differ from the "Infomediary" model that Hagel and Singer extensively advocated in the late nineties in, among others, their book "Net Worth"?

Ron Williams

It should not be lost on the reader that the mechanism you've described is a policy decision engine. Given (x, y, z, ...): Y/N/Don't know.

It does raise the question of inference. What safeguards would a system require against multiple and/or ad hoc queries from which specific data about a subject might be inferred?

I won't argue that its still an access control problem though fundamentally I think it is. The real challenge with privacy (and user-centric identity management) is to me the intractability of controlling remote data a la DRM, and that's why its mitigation is social/legal issue. But that's a different topic.

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